Author Topic: 45 Carbine  (Read 826 times)

DseL

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45 Carbine
« on: January 03, 2018, 12:50:45 am »
I bought a used 45 Carbine back in the spring. I've only got to shoot it twice. I can't hit the proverbial barn with it. To even get close to the target the rear sight is full right, and I'm still a few inches left. Disappointed to say the least. But there has to be something I'm missing as it's my first rifle. I had ear muffs on and wasn't very comfortable in my stance. Any ideas?
Additionally, I'm not sure I'm even sighting it in properly.. I've never encountered such sights before.
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Delbert

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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 01:31:51 am »
Sorry about your problems, but lets walk you through this to be sure it's either the gun or you and eliminate. Read it all before you do anything as you might want to do something in a different order than how I have it listed for your ease of inspection and checking alignments.

 EDITED: This next paragraph was edited in the following day as I had forgot about the removable forearm cover that needs to come off.

 This being the carbine model which has a forearm cover, you need to unlock the front rail clamp and remove the top section of forearm cover. It slides forward and is snug, so some brute force is sometimes needed to remove, but once off you'll have good access to barrel for what you need to look for by reading my following information.

 1: Start out with giving the gun a very thorough cleaning of chamber/barrel. Go over it more than a couple times just to be sure and lightly oil chamber/barrel and other components to be sure it's in tip/top shooting order.

 2: Before any ammo's are even loaded into the gun, do a pre-inspection of the sights. Using a straight-edge ruler, string or anything that can reach from the rear sight to the front sight, you want to visually draw a straight line down the center of the Chamber and Barrel to both rear and front sight post. This will tell you if one or both need realignment. Front sight can be turned by loosening the 2 allen head screws on the bottom side. I'd first do an alignment and only tighten down one screw snug to hold in place, and remove one screw and put some (blue) Loctite on it and tighten down good, while then remove second screw and do the Loctite on it and tighten down good. (the barrel is 4140 steel, so you'll strip the screws in the sight well before you damage the barrel). You want to make sure the front sight post is in perfect center-bore alignment with barrel's center-bore. Now, readjust the rear sight back to center. Always start off with everything originating at center when looking for and eliminating problems of (POA) Point of Aim.
 When doing the barrel/chamber straight edge method, you will also want to look for possible bent barrel. You'll know immediately by seeing the barrel's center-bore will be off, so before even doing a front sight adjustment, do the straight edge first. 
  If barrel is bent, it's a trip back to High Point for replacement and you're through doing any other eliminations as problem is found.

 3: Inspect the barrel's end to be sure it's not damaged and throwing off the bullets as they exit barrel. The slightest ding/metal burr on one of the riflings will make an accurate gun seem that wrapping it around a tree will make it more accurate.

 4: Inspect the length of top railing. Make sure it's not twisted/wavey(heat damage) and is screwed/locked down as best as possible. Make sure rail itself is centered to the barrel's center-bore and not cocked off to one side or other when sighting down, nor looks like a snake going across the road.

  All checks are done? No bent barrel, or bad barrel end which requires trip back to MOM. Alignment of both front and rear sights are good/corrected/centered according to barrel's center-bore. Plastic rail is straight also to barrel's center-bore. Now, to take to range and see if the gun is really the problem.

 5: Start with a target at 10yds to see how the bullets are hitting. You want to use a bullseye as your alignment point. You don't want any serious left or right shots of bullseye. High over the bullseye are OK as you're very close to target and bullet rise. If you have some left/right bullet strikes when you back up to the yardage you want to shoot from, adjust the rear sight the "opposite" direction of bullet hit. 

 6: Try to eliminate yourself to be sure of any accuracy issues. Do all your shootings and sight/optic adjustments off sand bags or in a shooting vise on a solid picnic table or shooting bench. These things alone will remove any doubts of accuracy in bad breathing techniques and gives the rifle a firm/solid foundation without any shakiness. Also, squeeze the trigger and don't jerk with your finger as that will only pull the gun off target. It happens more often than you think, especially with long pull triggers like the HP's have, along with the heavy trigger poundage that HP has given them.
      Pick a day that wind is at a calm if possible or go to an Indoor Range for best results from no wind.

 7: IF, by chance that after going through all this, I'd call up HP and have the rifle sent back to them to work out, so you don't waste all your ammo and you've done everything that's within your control.

 Do please keep us up to date on what you've found or if any of this helped you after going through the process of elimination.

 



 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:49:10 am by Delbert »
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James_Stephan

Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 08:07:37 am »
now that is some through and good advice. I would add one more thing are your eyes old, like mine...try a red dot. I cannot see open sights too well, even if aligned.

Delbert

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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 09:53:03 am »
now that is some through and good advice. I would add one more thing are your eyes old, like mine...try a red dot. I cannot see open sights too well, even if aligned.


 Thanks James. I did do a edited portion the next day as I'd forgotten to tell about removing the upper section of the forearm to access the barrel to be sure when checking that everything was in alignment to center-bore and only way to know is you gotta have access to the barrel to see.

 One of those old folk moments and it was around 1am when I did the writeup.

 Del
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DseL

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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 09:16:02 pm »
Uhhh... What??
LOL in my defense I did mention this was my first rifle. I might also shud have mentioned I'm only a little over a year into firearms and don't know very much of the terminology used in your post, let alone how to do any of it. Maybe I shud just sell it and give up on rifles...?
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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 12:10:21 am »
OK, Dsel I'll try to lead you through some of the terminology of a rifle and most will correspond over to pistols also.

 1: Barrel center-bore: Take a circle and visually see a vertical line running down through the very center from top to bottom. Have you done a math problem and used a circle as an example and divided the circumference in half? Use the same scenario when looking at a gun barrel.

 2: Straight edge: Using something that you know is perfectly straight(at least on one side and is long enough for needed usage). It can be a ruler, your eye sight by looking from one end to the other, or a piece of string that's brought taunt(like in concrete work with blue chalk string, to make a straight line on cement to guide the masons).

 3: Railing: This is the flat bars with the slots cut out of them, like what's on the top of rifle to mount scopes or where iron sights are located. For Hi-Point carbine models, the front of rail has a lock down clamp that requires to be unlocked by raising up the lever. It's tight, so a flat screwdriver might help to unlock by putting blade into slot and giving a clockwise twist(by looking from left side of rifle).

 4: Forearm: For our purpose this is what the opposite hand is holding to steady the long gun(rifle speak) while the strong hand is used to grip the stock or handhold while finger is used for trigger pull.

 4-A: Removable Forearm: For Hi-Point carbines after unlocking the top rail clamp, you push the upper portion towards the barrel end to gain access to the barrel or in tearing down the carbine for disassembly of cleaning/repairs. Just look at either side view of carbine and you'll see a division split.

 5: Front Sight: What the name implies. It's the sight that's closest to the end of barrel where bullet comes out. For the Hi-Point rifles this sight is held on by two(2) allen head type screws when looking on the sight's bottom.

 6: Rear Sight: The sight that's closest to your eye when rifle is shouldered and centering the front sight post to shoot at your target.

 7: Point Of Aim: (POA). This is the shooter looking at a target(be it an animal or paper) and using both front and rear sights (or optics if installed) and when pulling the trigger, the bullet finds the correct path to it's intended hit point. So if you are sighting one way and bullet hits at a different spot, there is some adjustments to do to correct the bullet's flight path.

 7-A: Point Of Impact: (POI). This is where bullet has left the barrel and has already hit the intended target. ie: You're shooting at a target 100yds down range. You do your POA which is the intended bullseye of target, BUT you see that the bullet missed the target and stirred up a dirt cloud where bullet hit under target. This is your POI and with this knowledge you need to adjust your sight, be it front or rear depending on model of gun. It's almost like point of aim, but still different. POA is while bullet is still in chamber(before pulling trigger) and POI is where bullet has left the barrel and has hit where it decides(after pulling trigger). Many people use the terms interchangeably, but they are really different.

 8: Shooting Bench/Picnic Table: While different they both serve a service when shooting. They hold all your equipment and give the shooter a place to sit, while being off the ground in a more comfortable way with something solid to shoot from, versus sprawling belly to the ground(prone position) and shooting.

 9: Sand Bags: Sand bags are self explaining, but they really come in many looks and with filled media. Go to any local gun store and ask for sand bags for shooting and they might show you 3-5 different styles from pillow to v-block looks.

 9-A: Shooting Vises/Clamps/Cradles: These are what you use when shooting from a picnic table or shooting bench. They are accessories that all rifle owners should have. They can be used to help clean, disassemble or assemble your weapon. Help with mounting a scope, or again help with shooting your gun to get the best possible accuracy from it by helping eliminate any breaths one does and helps steady the gun in an upright, vertical position that when pulling the trigger won't throw off the bullet. There is still shooter involvement in sighting, pulling the trigger and depending on shooting vise used, also shouldering somewhat to help with recoils and not let the rifle just go head over heals on itself and damage the finish. They give huge improvements over sighting in guns beyond the shoulder and holding method, so when you're out hunting and you miss your game, you know it's not the rifle fault as long as the game or target is within the proper shooting distances.

 10: Barrel End/Crown: This is where the bullet comes out at the end of barrel. It's called a "crown" or in laymen's terms a barrel end. They come in many styles.

        Target style: Flat outer face with a indented flat face. It's like taking a pie pan and imagining the outer edge is the barrel diameter and looking at the bottom of pie pan and seeing the indented portion with a hole in center for bullet exit, though not as drastic.

        Concave Crown: Just like a concave mirror, but being done to a barrel's end. Like taking a drill bit and counter sinking a hole for screw head.

        Convex Crown: A crown that's is not flat on its face, but has a gentle rounded bulge. A outwards bump if you want to call it.

        Flat Cut Crown: Barrel end that's flat, with no other features.

 11: Rifling: This is actually a two-fer if you will. The "Rifling" is actually the raised twisting ridges inside a barrel. There is also what's called a "Landing" which is the lower portions between the Rifling.

 12: Rifle Twist: This is how fast or slow the "Rifling" is going down the barrel depending on gun/caliber. This is one that is best left to experts (which I am not) and is found easily on the internet.
       

 I hope this has helped you in gaining some knowledge and don't be afraid to work on your own gun. It just takes time and effort and don't be afraid to ask questions or nowadays there's the Internet with all the U-tube videos . They didn't have anything like it when I grew up and worked/learned on and about guns. If I was anywhere near you, I'd lend a hand finding your problem and teaching you on how to find that problem from eliminating other possible problems.

 If your really not sure of yourself in doing the sorting through the adjustments or eliminating of this, that and other, just call Hi-Point up and send rifle back to them with a note explaining what you think is wrong. They'll go through it and fix (no charge to you) and test the results and return the carbine back as good or better than new. Just remove any extra parts(scopes/reddots, risers, barrel shrouds, padded hunting sling or anything that isn't factory or is aftermarket).

 Del 
 
 
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DseL

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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 12:21:35 am »
Wow.. That was really informative. Thanks a lot Del. I think I get the gist of it now. Just have to set aside a day to do it. Time.. Wish I could get a case of that!!
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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 07:06:55 am »
D.sel, I think you purchased  your gun for several different reasons, One of which was self defense. Picture yourself in a situation with your family or friends & you are needed to defend your self or them & your gun malfunctions. You SHOULD be able to trouble shoot your own gun? You don't want to be that guy that guy that just raises his hands & say shoot me because my gun is broke? Or the guy that is franticly crying & screaming what do I do , what do I do? You want to be the guy that say's "I have seen this before & this is what I should do"! No matter what brand of gun you buy, "things" happen? At least with Hi Points Warranty, you can always throw it in a box & send it back to the factory & say "FIX IT" please!!!
Remember, ANY Machine built by Man, Is Subject to Malfunction at a Moments Notice!!!
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DseL

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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 01:33:54 am »
I don't know anyone that packs a carbine tho lolol.. I'm confident in pistol trouble shooting. But as I said earlier.. This is my first rifle.. And rifles by nature must be more accurate than  a pistol simply by the longer barrel. Hence this post as why I'm perplexed to why I can't hit the barn with the Carbine.
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Delbert

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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 12:26:42 am »
  Dsel are you still having troubles with straight shooting your carbine?

  Have you at any time taken it apart to check and self diagnosis if possible? The barrel and chamber block is one unit and attaches to the receiver by roll pin(s). The receiver being an alloy there's a very slim chance something could be **** or broke and with each shot the broken piece pulls away to throw off your shots.

 If you can't or don't do a simple disassemble to pull the barrel/receiver out of the stock, you'll never know as an easy check to see.

 Another possibility is you're not resting your cheek on the stock correctly and not looking through the peep sight at the front post correctly. Have you ever had any friends do a shoot check to see if it's really the carbine or just your shooting posture? You would also need to set the rear sight back to center to find out. I've already mentioned in an earlier thread how to adjust the front sight. It goes opposite way in which the rifle shoots. If shooting far LEFT, then loosen screws and push front sight post to the RIGHT. AGAIN, bring rear peep sight back to center.

 Last resort is send the firearm back to MOM just to have them realign the sights and say it shoots fine(on target) and it's your shooting style. So you need someone who's more familiar with rifles to help you out as all we can do is give you suggestions on what could be wrong without being able to see the gun.

 Tell us what you're doing and have checked, to know those are now things that can be eliminated in the problem solving. But, you must do a disassemble to let us know what you've done/seen/inspected just like when you disassemble a pistol, which you are more familiar with, to inspect for ANY shooting problems.
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DseL

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Re: 45 Carbine
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 01:44:31 am »
Unfortunately no.. I haven't had time to test fire it again. I'm terrified to take it apart, even with the superb information I've received in this thread. But you might me on to something.. My cheek was not on the stock, an impossibility for me using ear muffs. And, honestly, I didn't realize your cheek was sposed to rest on the stock. I'm assuming that's a broken jaw or missing teeth with a shotgun hahaha!
When I get some free time I will post an update to this thread.
Thank you all for your excellent suggestions!! 👍
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